Romance Recs

Interview with author Rachel Van Dyken

• Jordan & Devonnie • Season 3 • Episode 7

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Jordan and Devonnie interview with the #1 New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and USA TODAY bestselling author, Rachel Van Dyken. Rachel has almost two HUNDRED books published already. From regency to thrillers she has an extensive catalog to choose from.

Her latest release, Fallen Gods, comes out December 2nd! Fallen Gods is dark academia meets Norse mythology all set in our current world. Listen to learn how Rachel took these legends and put her own unique twist on them.


More about Rachel Van Dyken: https://rachelvandykenauthor.com/

Pre-order Fallen Gods: https://www.entangledpublishing.com/books/fallen-gods

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Jordan:

Welcome to Romance Recs. We are romance obsessed besties sharing book res, broken down by genres and tropes so you can be sure you're getting exactly what you want out of your next read. I'm Jordan, and I am currently listening to the Tempest Blade by, Danielle L. Jensen.

Devonnie:

Hey guys, dev here, and I am reading the Fallen Gods by Rachel Van Dyken. I'm not done yet,

Jordan:

Perfect. And we have with us today.

Rachel:

Rachel Van Dyken.

Jordan:

yay.

Rachel:

did it.

Jordan:

Yay.

Rachel:

Hello. I am here and I am currently reading. Okay. I'm reading it, or I'm starting to read Kingdom of Tomorrow by Gina Showalter, who, if you've never read Gina Showalter incredible author. So I'm starting her book I Today, kingdom of Tomorrow.

Devonnie:

Love that.

Jordan:

is that her latest one?

Rachel:

Yes, I have the arc. Yes. Be jealous.

Jordan:

I saw that on, I saw it on Net Galley. I got an arc of her last one I the with the Berserker and

Rachel:

Oh yeah. Yes.

Jordan:

it was good. It was good. It was so good. And I'm so

Rachel:

just so good. No, thank you. Sorry, I just go off on her now, but I'm so happy to be here, guys. So happy.

Jordan:

Perfect. I am so excited to talk with you today, especially about fallen gods. Before we do that, we usually start our episodes with a quote from a recent read or just a favorite quote that we found. So I will kick us off, but I have a quote from Fallen Gods by Rachel. I have a few quotes I had to choose from, but this one I just, I love the imagery here. Besides, we're all born with a little bit of monster inside us who says, that's a bad thing. Something has to save us from ourselves. And I just,

Devonnie:

Yeah, I do love that. I love that. Okay. Okay. I have a quote. Also by Rachel, but it's from the godparent trap.

Rachel:

That.

Devonnie:

So yeah, so it is I don't know what sane man would see you as just a friend. He cursed under his breath. You are like a fucking hurricane, a chaotic, beautiful mess of waves and wind. Powerful, daunting, and any guy, especially ones like banks, would risk his life during the storm just to see if he can survive it. Because I want my man obsessed. Yeah.

Rachel:

Yes.

Devonnie:

Just rip.

Rachel:

Yes. No, I love it. I, and I love that book. You could tell I was definitely had toddlers when I wrote that book.

Devonnie:

Yes.

Rachel:

People were like, I identify with this. And I'm like, same with like noodles in my hair. It's cool. It's cool. You're not alone.

Devonnie:

The constant appointments, the running in and out. Yeah. That was very relatable for me.

Rachel:

Yeah. That was my life. You were, you read my life. You're welcome. So I have, my quote is from my own book as well. It's from Fallen Gods, and I also had a lot of quotes in this. Uh, some didn't even make it to the book, but that's okay. We'll talk about that later. But the one that I like one of them that I like the most is from that same section where she talks about monsters. And it is, it's not Hyde that does the saving. It's Jekyll. And I don't know. I loved that part, and that's like a whole, that whole like feeling of that scene is really fun too. So it's a whole vibe.

Devonnie:

yeah. Oh, that's so nice.

Jordan:

So Rachel, can you give us just a little about you? What do you want readers to know about you? Who are you? And then yeah, we'll start with that. Who are you as an author?

Rachel:

Who even am I after all these books? So I've written so. I've written too many. I have written almost 200 books I've been writing since 2011. Yeah. So it's been a wild journey here. I write the way that I read, so if you are like, I don't even like romance, don't worry. I got you.'cause I write thriller, I like write mafia, I write basically everything because I'm kind of that reader. I will read anything as long as it's good writing and it's a good story. I am like here for it. So I write that way. So I write in every single genre. I've been writing a very long time. I'm hybrid. For readers listening, that means that I do traditional and I also do indie books. Like I have my own publishing company. So I kind of do both. I like to have my feet in kind of both ends of the arena. And this is my first traditional book that I've had out like in a couple years since The Godparent Trap, actually, since Dev mentioned that it's the first book since that. So it's the one that I've been working on and pouring my heart and soul into. So yeah, so that's what I do full-time as a writer. I am a mom of two boys, two very active boys, and yeah, just living the dream here, pounding out all the words all the time.

Devonnie:

I love that.

Jordan:

I feel like you're writing as fast as I'm reading these days, which is so wild. Oh my

Rachel:

But I write full time, so I always tell people like it's full time. And when I first started, I don't know what Lunatic told me this, but they were like, if you wanna be a real author, you have to write 10,000 words a day. And I was like, oh my gosh, if I wanna be taken seriously, I too have to write 10,000 words a day. This was before kids mind you. So before the insanity came in. And so I took that to heart. And I think my first year writing, I wrote seven books. Because again, I thought that's what you were supposed, like there was no rule book. Right. And there isn't now. I hadn't reached out to authors yet. Like I didn't know, I was just Googling things, so I read it online and I was like, well, that's just what you do, because that's what these people do when I wanna be like these people, so I'm gonna write like these people. So I take it with a grain of salt. I don't do that anymore. I don't write as fast as I used to.

Devonnie:

I get that. I love how candid that take is as well because I'm sure there are a lot of aspiring authors who probably see that you have to hit this word count to be taken seriously. So I love that, That you shared that

Jordan:

Perfect. And we're fo with That's a lot, that's a big catalog to look into, which is awesome, but we're focusing

Devonnie:

bit of something.

Jordan:

on fallen gods. Do you have your little elevator speech, your little synopsis that you like to give for fallen gods?

Rachel:

So I'm gonna, so Shane Rose quoted this and so I'm gonna quote her. So she said, Twilight meets Norse mythology, but it's a little bit more grown up. So so people I had a lot of people actually ask when they were looking at this, they were like, oh, well does it have, you know, how is it ya? Is it what? So I write very like new adult. I write very spicy. Not like I'm like the mid, I'm mid. There, I am right there. So fallen gods is about a girl the daughter of Odin that gets dropped into this university. She's an assassin and she has to go in and find Ner, which is Thor's hammer and bring it back to the gods. There's been a war that's been going on for a really long time. So we're set in like modern times where the gods and giants exist and she's trying to get it back to restore the power to the gods, and also to restore the biros, which connects us back to Asgard. So it's kind of like this whole journey that she takes. But again, we're thrown into modern society, so it's not like I created this random world. It's like this could actually happen to you. I used rural spots. I used, uh, lake Stevens. I, my grandparents had a house. They actually mimicked Eric's house after their house. And I used a whole bunch of like normal like landmarks. An area, so like I, my, my goal would be for someone to read this and be like, oh, that could actually happen. I'm walking amongst Gods, and I'd be like, yes, you are.

Jordan:

That's so cool.

Devonnie:

we did see all the names of places like Everett, Bellevue, lake Stevens.

Jordan:

Yeah. And the ice caves

Rachel:

yeah,

Jordan:

Yeah, that's perfect.'cause we are in the area. We live in the area, yeah, it was very personal. Like we could see it. So that was so fun. I was able to finish. Dev is still working on it. So I we're gonna talk a little about, a little bit about falling god's now as much as we can. I don't wanna

Rachel:

Yes. We don't wanna spoil it. Yeah, we

Devonnie:

Yeah.

Rachel:

because there's a crazy ending, so we can't spoil that

Jordan:

There

Devonnie:

Okay. Right. Yes.

Jordan:

of reveals.

Rachel:

Yes.

Jordan:

A lot of guessing. You know, I, you always like to play the guessing game when there's like mysteries in a book. And so I did a lot of that. A couple I saw and others I was like, oh, well maybe I should have seen that, but I did not see it at all. So kudos to you. You got me with

Rachel:

Thank you.

Jordan:

Yeah. But it was, I don't know. To me it was just so interesting, the concept because in, in this world, most of the gods and giants are what they, what you call asleep. Not like physically sleeping, but like their memories and who they are is like not in their conscious brain is kind of like how I think of it. And that was, it's just so interesting to me. And I still have so many questions that I can't wait. Is this gonna be a duology? Are you planning do you have a, how many plans do you have planned?

Rachel:

So originally it was actually three books. Now it's a Duology. So the second book is gonna be pretty big because there's a lot that we have to unpack here because Book one is, it's great, but it's definitely like tapping the surface. And I, and it's so hard because I had so many things that I wanted to do, but they were like no. Because I mean, when you're in it, you're like, I don't even know how long this is. And it's that is definitely beyond what you need to be writing for this book. Like when we get to the ice caves, you're well over halfway. And I'm like, no, because in my brain I'm like, yeah, that's like you're only like 50 pages in and no, that's not the case at all. That's, but that's how I'm writing it because that's like it, it's a very fast read.'cause as you guys can tell, I'm very dialogue heavy. So whenever a book is very dialogue heavy. Even though it's a longer book, it feels faster, right? Because you can just read it faster, you digest it faster. It's as if you're watching a movie, you're just like right there. So yeah, it is meant to be longer than two books. We're gonna, we're gonna pack it into the second one and it just makes it, it's just gonna be that much better in book two. But yeah, there's a lot to unpack.

Jordan:

Yeah, I've got, I still have so many questions and I was like, I need to know what about this, what about give me more. So I definitely was left with I need to know, I need to know these things. So it was really cool. But like the mythology to me was like the star of the show. Like it was so cool to see that take on it. So I was wondering like when you were writing Fallen Gods,'cause I read. A little about you and how this mythology played a big part for you, like growing up and you heard these stories right from your dad, is that what I

Rachel:

My, my grandpa and my dad. Yeah. Yeah.

Devonnie:

Yeah.

Jordan:

so it was a big part of you too. And so when writing a book like this, how did you decide what to keep and what to twist and make, put a twist on and change a little bit? What was that process like for you? I'm wondering'cause.

Rachel:

That was hard because there's, this is ton mythology. If you really read the mythology, like the real mythology of it, like people always think Marvel, they think Thor immediately. And I'm like, no. That's such a small part of it. So for me it was actually going in and not doing a lot of the things that. That I wanted to do because it would confuse people, and I didn't want people to be confused because a lot of times when you read books about Greek gods, Roman gods you know, because there's so many books on it, on Norse mythology, all you have to compare it to is a Loki and Thor, and maybe Odin. That's all you have. So going into it, it was really hard. I tried to uncomplicate it as much as. Physically possible. And if, you know Norse mythology one of the characters makes a joke about a serpent.'cause low-key has a serpent. There's certain things that I like I put in there that it's oh, if you know Norse mythology, you're gonna catch it. If you don't, you're gonna be like, oh, that's funny. But then later on be like, wait. So I, that was the hard part for me. It really was because there's so much there. And Norse mythology in and of itself is extremely graphic. And extremely it's crazy. So like the things like if I were to put it in there, people would be like, she's just making stuff up now. And I'd be like, no, listen, like that's actually part of the mythology. But people would, they'd be accusatory, like I know that I would get, I would probably get in trouble and pinged because they would think I was trying to like do stuff when I'm really, I'm just like going towards what I really studied as a kid. So I kept in the stories that I liked and I kept in the feel of everything, but made it to where it was like digestible. My very first version of it, my editors were like, you can't, we can't publish this. They were like, within the first like couple chapters they did, they were like, no, like the first draft, because they were like, we need a dictionary. They were like, I don't even know what this word is'cause I was using all the Norse words and I had stuff in Norwegian. Listen guys. I went'cause I love research. So if you've ever read any of my other books, like Mafia, like I am in there and everything is extremely researched. And so for me, I was like, and it's gonna be amazing and we're gonna teach them all these things. They're like, yeah, people don't. No, they don't go to Target to get taught. No, honey. No. So they like had to Yeah, like this is the one thing they don't want, like this book will not sell. So they had to like really reign me in because I was all like geeking out and excited and they were like, yeah, no, that's not your target audience. People don't care. They don't

Jordan:

I dunno. I care. I love that stuff. I'd read it like, there you go.

Devonnie:

I

Rachel:

you. I'll give you the first draft. You can read

Jordan:

No.

Rachel:

Live your best life and be like, she's so smart. Thank you.

Devonnie:

with the dictionary. Okay. Okay. And.

Rachel:

Little highlighter. Hey,

Jordan:

You

Rachel:

dev knows. Dev knows.

Jordan:

Or like the little numbers by each word. And on the

Devonnie:

Right. And then you go to the bottom of the page. Yeah,

Rachel:

It'll be a bestseller in no time. My, I feel it. I feel it.

Jordan:

that's what Book Talk loves, right? That's what we're

Devonnie:

Right, right. Exactly. That's what we're doing there.

Jordan:

that's ah, I just love it. So I also just don't mind my internet stalking bef like

Rachel:

Oh, you're fine.

Devonnie:

Yeah. Yeah. Heavy stalking.

Rachel:

We do this.

Jordan:

stocking. Yeah. And we even saw, so I see just so many things that you've pulled from, obviously things you've loved growing up and your life and which always makes it, I feel like, so much more personal and like relatable. When you're reading it, you can tell. But like I saw, I think it was a post yesterday or something you did about your husband's tattoos because he says ruined tattoos on his fingers. But first of all, we love the tattoos

Devonnie:

Yes.

Rachel:

Same.

Jordan:

But like I love it. I think you said something like, didn't you model, was it odin's? Markings after that? That's

Rachel:

so like when he, and like the very, what was it? The first chapter when he has his pain, like the wolf or whatever, cane, and he has his fingers. I was like, how, like I just had this vision and I write as if I'm watching a movie, like the characters do things that I just type out what happens. So like I'm very visual and so I'm like, oh my goodness, like cinematically like. He's sitting in the car and his hand is on this and it's twisting and all you hear is the twist. And then you see his fingers drum and I'm like, oh man, how cool would that be if he has just like ruins? But he is like this older dude and he is like, mafia, and my brain just exploded. I was like, so thankfully the husband already had him. But I have, I'm gonna be completely transparent here. I have in the past told my husband, can you get this tattoo from me so I can use it? In this book, straight up, he went and did it because he's a team player in this house and that's what we are. I mean, my, listen, my son's name is Sora. Okay. I don't mess around in this house, so

Jordan:

Yeah, you're

Rachel:

even kidding.

Jordan:

You're

Rachel:

Blonde. Like we like did the cornrows. So like we are a family, we're a unit. So

Devonnie:

Yeah,

Rachel:

so he went and got, he got one of my mafia tattoos. Every saint has a past, every center has a future is one of my favorite quotes. Favorite quotes of all time. And so I was like, one of the mafia guys has that on his ribs. And I was like, if you could just go get that done on your ribs, you know, the painful part, that'd be great. And he was like, actually, I really liked that too. So he went and got that done. And then the room tattoos he already had done. And then the dates of, or dates and names. I believe the names of our sons like Warwick, so we have Nor, so my youngest is Wick, so Udi. Then my second is Thor Theodore, and then so we have their names and birth dates and stuff on his hands. So that's where the room tattoos come from?

Jordan:

That's awesome.

Devonnie:

I love that. I love that. I know. It's like such lore, you know,

Rachel:

Yes,

Devonnie:

like giving more,

Rachel:

have our own Laurie.

Devonnie:

Yeah.

Jordan:

Uh, that's awesome. What was the most fun scene for you to write? Can you describe what was the most fun part of this? Of fallen Gods to write?

Rachel:

I can't actually say, well, you guys know because you read that part probably, but it's a spoiler scene of a character reveal. And I was like, if people do not throw their kindles when this happens, if I don't have people like running to cancel me, I have not done my job. Listen, I have, I was like, literally. So then I was waiting, but then I was so deep in it with edits that I was like, is this even good anymore? You know, you're getting to that point where you're like, and so one of the, so then Red tower? Yes. The publisher has people come in, like the editors come in, they do a cold read and everything. And I got them and I was so excited that a whole bunch of them were like, we, because they read so many fantasy books, I'm like, you know, they know like the formula, like they're gonna see this and be like, oh great Rachel, good job. So but I didn't, and I got a couple of them, especially one of them that like normally.'cause she works a lot in tv, doesn't, you know, she's knows everything. So she, I got her and she told me that and admitted it and I was like, I have done it. Felt like I accomplished something, but that's really fun. It's the reveals because I get giddy, so like when I'm writing, I'm not just oh my gosh. And just oh, another word count. I'm sitting here just and then this happens and then I get excited. And when that, when I had a couple character reveals I literally just stood up and my husband's and he just looks at me like what'd you do? I'm like, well, and then this. And then all of a sudden I get like teary eyed because I'm like, pumped. No one can see, no one cares. And I'm like, and then I'll just start clapping like this in front of the computer. And it's just like if people could watch me, they'd be, think I had a problem. But I do that when I read books too. I'm just like, oh, and I like narrate life. So I mean that, I mean all those scenes like that in this book, that it was literally me just being like dancing, clapping for myself, cheering,

Devonnie:

I love that.

Rachel:

But that's fun because for me it's so fun because I know that people are gonna be geeked out to you and they're gonna be like I called it or I saw this coming, or I didn't see this coming. And I mean, that's the part I love reading. Like I love it when it's an interactive like that. You should have a gut reaction to things. And so those are the fun parts when I know readers are gonna freak out. Love it.

Jordan:

had gut reactions to this book. I definitely did. Yes, for sure.

Devonnie:

And I love that you talk about a bit, a little bit about your writing process because especially with you saying that you write kinda like cinematically.'cause in my brain that's how I think I write as well. Like I see it and then I translate it. And so for you, with that being said, do you ever plot anything? Do you consider yourself a plotter at all or are you just a pants like we're sitting down and we're just like. Something's gonna happen and you're like waiting for your, that So Raven vision to like then start

Jordan:

That's,

Rachel:

Uh, no. I am a total pants like I am. Like I'll be writing and then be like, she's pregnant. What did you do to like the character?

Jordan:

you're

Rachel:

totally shocks me.

Devonnie:

Yeah. So shocked.

Rachel:

yeah. I'm just like, how could you I don't even know what to do anymore. Like we have to. Yeah. So that's, I'm definitely a pants with fantasy. I've had to tone it down a bit. I think a lot of times, a lot. I say I'm a pants, but I think too, when you're in your craft so much. It's actually a happy accident. So I think a lot of times too, like I'll be writing and I don't even realize I'm doing it, and then I'll come back to book five and be like, that was totally planned. It wasn't planned. But in my head, I think because of the way that it goes, it really, the characters really do set that up for me. So it ends up working out as a happy accident. But with fantasy, I think you do have to, especially with world building and stuff,

Devonnie:

right.

Rachel:

With mafia, I do the same. I really have to focus on okay, these five things have to happen and I have to stay true to this world. But as long as that happens, then we're good. So I would say like the big dots, I know the big dots. I call them big dots, like the big things I know for the most part, I know there's a couple surprises and then the little tiny things I don't or how they get there. That's like the writing process for me is like those tiny okay, well how do we thread this? How do we get from point A to point B? And. Sadly, I always wanna be in point B. Then I'm like, yay. And then I wanna be in point C. But I know that there has to be a trail to get there. So that's the hard part of focusing for me.

Jordan:

I love that you're so excited about what you know is coming up and you're trying

Rachel:

Yeah.

Devonnie:

Yeah. Just

Rachel:

And my editors can tell. Yeah. They're like, I know you wanna write more dialogue, Rachel, but you can't do that. Yeah.

Jordan:

We have to know where they are too.

Devonnie:

so funny. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel:

be dressed. Yeah. I don't feed them. They're like, it's it's a horrible thing. Like it's, yeah. And I'm like, they haven't eaten. They have the same shirt on I don't even know if they use the restroom. They're just magic, so who knows.

Jordan:

Oh no, they're in bed. Did get here. I.

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. It's been a day the book is done.

Devonnie:

I actually love that.

Jordan:

I know. Well, I mean, to be fair, fallen Gods takes place in a week.

Devonnie:

Yeah. We've got seven days to get it right.

Jordan:

we're going, so

Rachel:

Listen guys. It was two days at one point. No, it was like short because, so here's the thing. Here's the thing. I had it, I had, I tried, I'm telling you all the D, all the secrets. I had it down to 30 days and I was like, oh, 30 days is like a good, I'm like, you're in school, you're used to orientation, you're doing all these things and then it like, then you get to the point where, especially when like you have some, like a mission that it feels like you're slowed down by all the mundane things. And what I didn't wanna get pinged for was. The everyday like, yes, they need to be in class. Yes, they need me be doing things. But you can only be in math class for so long. You can only be doing these things for so long. And unless you wanna introduce a brand new thread, unless you wanna introduce a brand new plot point, that stuff is all filler. And readers don't buy a book for filler. They buy a book for entertainment and to for stuff to get done. And so I wanna make sure I'm doing my job and I'm not just writing a book of filler. We're like 40%. Is stuff you already know. We're introducing things and so andSo, who's brand? Who's this? You're like, I don't care.

Jordan:

You wanna burn, you wanna open the book and burn right through. You're

Rachel:

And so while I'm sure some are gonna, are not gonna that aspect of it, I think I get away with it because it's not instill love, it's sense to hate technically, but also they've known each other. So like you have that past, and I think that's an easier way to kind of justify everything and it's magic. And you're in these forced emotionally high situations, so of course you're gonna react in those ways. So I think if it was like any, yeah, it's, yeah, exactly. So it's, I think you're able to justify a lot of those actions.

Jordan:

They're not

Rachel:

I lie to myself,

Devonnie:

Yeah.

Jordan:

human. It's fine.

Rachel:

it's fine.

Jordan:

We like to break up our interviews a little bit like halfway through. Something fun. We don't have to think so much about it. We're gonna play this or that game, and we're just gonna read questions, this or that, and it's just the first answer that comes to your head. No wrong answers. Only slight judgment, so nothing that matters.

Rachel:

Okay.

Jordan:

All right, Deb, you wanna start us off? You wanna

Devonnie:

Yes. Okay. Physical or ebook.

Rachel:

Both.

Jordan:

Starting us

Devonnie:

never had anyone I've never had anyone say both. I feel like everyone always picks, right. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Books that make you cry or books that make you laugh.

Rachel:

Laugh.

Devonnie:

All right. Thor or Loki.

Jordan:

Yeah, that is correct. Yeah,

Devonnie:

that's right. That's right.

Rachel:

Got a little mischief.

Jordan:

yeah.

Devonnie:

Okay. Last one for me. Small town or billionaire Romance.

Rachel:

Billionaire romance, come on.

Jordan:

Billionaire in a small town is the best, but yeah, that's a

Devonnie:

That's

Rachel:

hallmark action. I'll do

Devonnie:

my personal, yeah, that's my personal,

Rachel:

Yes.

Jordan:

All right. Standalone or series?

Rachel:

Ah. Depends on my mood. Probably series. Yeah.

Jordan:

Marriage of convenience or arranged marriage or

Rachel:

Arranged marriage.'cause they usually hate each other.

Jordan:

Romantic or dark romance.

Rachel:

Romantic.

Devonnie:

Yay.

Jordan:

And then name your top three book boyfriends.

Rachel:

Don't.

Jordan:

Yeah,

Rachel:

Oh no. Oh

Devonnie:

the hard one. This is always the hard

Rachel:

other, but of other books.

Jordan:

Other books. Or if you're just like, I

Devonnie:

or yours.

Jordan:

it's whatever comes to your heart, your mind.

Rachel:

Well, well, I don't know why. It's my millennial heart. Guys, listen, I'm 40. Okay. So originally, like you say that, and I'm like. I think AAR first. Ryland of course. And then I think, and then I think Twilight and then I think Edward. But again,

Jordan:

say you need to specify

Devonnie:

Specify. Yeah.

Rachel:

but, okay. My, at the time, 20-year-old heart was like Edward Vampires now that I'm older and I follow Jacob Taylor on TikTok and his wife. Yeah. What?

Devonnie:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I'm like, I so wanna hang out with him and I wanna be, and I'm like, I, he was massively underrated. Can we just talk about

Jordan:

I've

Rachel:

we just talk about

Jordan:

Jacob. I've always been Team Taylor, ner and

Rachel:

He got such the press, like everything, he was done so dirty. Can we just talk about this? He really was. He's so good. And like he's and he like is so able to make fun of himself and stuff now, but like he tried the hardest and like for him packing up all all that muscle at that time like, and like now knowing what I know about the industry and like just how they're shooting and everything, I'm like, that boy like needs a standing ovation for him and Robert Pattinson. They worked them and they got paid nothing for that first film. Yeah. I don't know. I, yeah, there we go. Sorry. See there? Yeah. But there we go. There's for that. And then I think one more, so my other favorite character I've written, I'm gonna say Phoenix, and he's one of my darker characters. So I write Mafia Romance and he's one that has done like the he's like the worst character I've ever written as far as like you can't redeem him. And every person that read it was like, you could never redeem him. And then I did. And so now he's like in, I have a, what, 15, 18 books in this mafia series. And he's daddy Phoenix. Like he just comes back in, even in his fifties we're like, we're here for it. Because he's old now but I keep bringing him back. Phoenix Rising from the ashes. See, I knew, I didn't know

Devonnie:

Oh, you see, you knew. You knew. You knew.

Rachel:

past me, new future me would come back and you know, so it was all part of the crazy plan. So that's

Jordan:

it. What's the book? What's the series?

Devonnie:

Well, yeah. What's the

Rachel:

So that's that. His book is Ember and it's the Eagle Elite Series. So it's my other, I have the dark one series is my vampire, like God's kind of series. It's one of my bestselling series. And Eagle Elite is my mafia series that started back in 2011. That is still, it's finally finished, but it's uh, it's, yeah, it's been ongoing for forever.'cause it just has a huge following. So I just keep writing in it and writing in it and that was my first like dark, it was dark academies, like that's how it started. Yeah.

Jordan:

a

Devonnie:

Oh, nice. Okay. Yeah, I was just about to say, that'll get Jordan hooked.

Jordan:

Every time. Every time.

Devonnie:

Okay. All right.

Jordan:

that. That's

Devonnie:

So what genre do you read most often? It seems like writing you, it's for everybody. Like we can write anywhere anything, but when you are going to look for a book or you're like, Ooh I wanna read right now, what are you reaching for?

Rachel:

So I can't read in the same genre that I'm writing in. Like I refuse to do that. So if I'm writing Mafia, I can't read Mafia. If I'm writing romantic, like I haven't read romantic book for three years. Uh, that's crazy because that's one of my favorite genres to read in. But I'm like, I don't want anything to seep in. I don't want anything. I don't want to even be, I don't want anyone to ever even be like, well, it's probably'cause she read this. I haven't read the fourth wing at all. Not because I don't wanna support Rebecca at all because I, yeah. But I just, I have not read it like I, because I'm like, I can't read a book that is in my same genre or even at the same publisher. I have read two or three that I, that publisher asked me to read to four. For like quotes and stuff. On May Cortland, I read hers and then Abby, I'm reading hers right now. So like I've read a couple, but I, yeah. So right now I'm reading, I love to read my palate cleanser, don't judge

Jordan:

No, no judgment

Rachel:

ruby, my palate cleanser's Ruby Dixon, the boo aliens, like that is my palate cleanser. So I go to the alien romances because first off, I don't think I could do it. I don't, that's the one genre I think I would suck at. But bless these women and their ability to just write the crap out of these books. They're so good and they're crazy. But the crazy part is if I try to explain it out loud, I sound crazy. But when I read it, I'm like, they're actually really good, really well written. But

Devonnie:

They're good. And first of all, I ice explain a barbarian. It's a small town romance. I'm a small town

Rachel:

And

Devonnie:

that is,

Jordan:

Yep. That's Deb's

Devonnie:

that's my hot take. It is a small town romance. We all live in a cer. Okay? The men, that's a man that is a

Rachel:

They're homestead. Yes.

Devonnie:

okay? These are farmers, hunters and gatherers,

Jordan:

They're built for your pleasure.

Rachel:

I'm

Devonnie:

They.

Rachel:

yes. Oh my gosh.

Devonnie:

And the world is so vast.

Rachel:

This. Okay.

Devonnie:

yes.

Rachel:

this is the moment to tune in.

Devonnie:

I have been screaming about ice sweat bar. Like

Jordan:

we've been

Devonnie:

I talk about it all to my, it's one of my favorite series. It's one of my favorite series. Like I love it so much and it's a wonderful palette, cleanser, but also tear jerker. You learn so much, you know?

Rachel:

No, I mean, it honestly is that's what, it's why it's like you explain it, but you're like, no, and then you wanna be like, no, but gets deep. And they're like, yeah,

Devonnie:

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel:

but yes, that,

Devonnie:

But also there are things, trauma.

Jordan:

that they had to work through

Devonnie:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Body dysmorphia. There's so much

Devonnie:

There's so much I will, yeah. I'll never stop brain. So I, you, I think you're the first person to like, bring up this series and be

Jordan:

first.

Devonnie:

Yeah. Without me doing Right. You know?

Rachel:

guys. I was

Devonnie:

Thank you so much.

Rachel:

coached. Okay.

Devonnie:

you. I just, you know Yeah. We just, we're just, we just on the same page and I love that. I love that. Right, right, right,

Jordan:

I'm literally just a girl.

Devonnie:

right, right. Yeah. Meant to be. I love that. That's so good. But yeah. Okay, so you just can't read what you're writing. But, so now are you gonna try to, once the book's out? Well no.'cause you're probably still working on book two. Huh? Are

Rachel:

So I'm gonna I'll go back to Alien Romance and then I'm gonna, I just downloaded, what is it? I wrote it down. Nina Jarrett, that's a new to me author, but Regency, I was just like, what are some new regency

Devonnie:

Oh yeah.

Rachel:

like newer authors that like people don't know about, that aren't mainstream, like I. Know what it's like to be an author that no one knows about. And still to this day, like people are like, I don't know who that is. And I'm like, then buy me read me. That'd be great. Because like people, like there's so many authors out there. There's authors that have hundreds of thousands of followers that I've never even heard of that I'm like, man. So imagine like the author that has one that has really good books, but no one has discovered them. So my goal in life is to find these authors and not only blast them everywhere, but also read their books because there's so many out there. So downloaded hers. My go-to always is Eloisa James when it comes to Regency or Lisa Kpe. So I go to them and then Gina Showalter already have, and then I, yeah, so I kind of, I bounce around a lot of times. If I need a palate clean that's not, uh, the not alien, I will go to Regency or Historical because it's so opposite of what I write. And I used to write, I used to write, I have 14 Regency. Books, so I used to write it so I understand the care that goes into having to alter your sentence structure and look up words that didn't exist in that time and write, you know, it's a very different type of writing style, and so I really appreciate when authors do it well. And so I like to read that as well. Yeah.

Devonnie:

I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan:

So with all of those that you've read, what are like some of your favorite reads from this past year? We're coming on the end of the year, 2025. When you think about this past year of books, do you have a couple titles that you're just like, yeah, I remember reading that.

Rachel:

Yeah, so filthy. Fay, is it Filthy Rich Fay? Is it Filthy Rich? Fay, Geneva Lee. So yeah, so I had to my publisher was like, Hey, will you do a blurb on, lets re read this. I was like, I love Geneva Lee's book. So I hadn't read one of her books in a long time, and I saw that she had this new series. I'm like, oh man, I've been missing out. Clearly I've been in my writing hole because I didn't know she'd been releasing. Devoured that book. That's another book that like tons of dialogue. You're like, wait, we're, I don't even know if they're dressed, but it's so good. Like they're tons of dialogue. So love, I like loved that book. It like literally, I even told my publisher, I'm like, there's too many quotes to give you on this because it honestly had I been. In a reading slump, or had I been like, I don't even know if I like reading anymore. If I would've read this, it would've brought me out of it. So completely that that's you know, like a good book that can do that. Especially when you're jumping right into almost like Mider, it was a spinoff, so kind of mider. So I'm really, I'm pumping through her books right now. What else am I reading? I'm trying to think. I am starting that Gina Showalter book. And then I do have a stack of the last few Louisa James books that I haven't finished yet that I'm like waiting to go through. And then someone, a reader told me that I needed to start reading Monster Romance, so I'm gonna

Jordan:

you have not tried that yet.

Rachel:

I have, so I tried. What's the one that's really popular? There's like a sleepover and

Jordan:

Farm. No,

Rachel:

no.

Devonnie:

not more than.

Jordan:

you save Lot Romance and it's popular. I'm gonna like.

Rachel:

Yeah. My husband comes home. What in the, don't worry about it

Jordan:

that's an after the kids go to bed book.

Rachel:

Well, I mean, it's kind of like I, because I'm like, I can make the switch. I can go from aliens, I can create a license. Like I can go from here to sustain my disbelief to they have horns and they have a tail. I'm like, cool, I can get on board with this. Like literally figuratively, whatever. Like we can do this. So I, so yeah. After this, if you guys wanna give me some, someone, ones I need to read. I was at a library in Utah with Ka Lindy. I was doing like in conversation with her for her book releases and I'm this is like after, this is so sad. So afterwards, everyone's like leaving and stuff and we're walking around and they're like, oh, if you need to this restroom, do this. And I'm like, so where are the, you know, like, where's all the books? So then I go to all the romance section,'cause I'm romance and I just literally start putting like a stack. And I'm like, what about this one? She's oh. And then she looked at me and she was like, oh, here you go. And she like saw the look in my eyes of like fever, like that I needed, like all these books, even though I'm flying back home and I didn't even bring, I have to like, everything's gonna carry on. You guys listen, my, I think I bought like 15 books I bought like matches that I just realized I couldn't take on the plane, but they were so cute. I bought them anyways because it's a bookstore. And so I bought like all these things. I'm like, I wore t-shirts. I got I got all their t-shirts was pride month. So I had one that said good boy, and like all these like wearing stuff on the plane. So

Devonnie:

Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel:

as I should. So I'm like bringing all this stuff. So anyway, so that was me. So that's how I am as the reader. So yes, and there was a monster romance in there, but. I'm also a nice person and one of my assistants I told her I got her some books, so I was like, but I'm gonna read some of them first. But I sent her the

Devonnie:

Yeah.

Rachel:

instead as like a good person.

Jordan:

I'm a

Rachel:

She just loves everything. Yeah. But no, I did. And then the other ones I gave to my sister, I actually read them their regencies and they were so cute. And I read them first and then gave'em to her. I mean, come on. That sharing is caring. Sharing is caring. It is. And I didn't bend the pages guys. I didn't bend them. They were in pristine condition. Like brand new,

Jordan:

No one knows. No one has to know who's gonna know.

Rachel:

No one has to know. No, but you know, like the panic when you're eating, but you can't eat and read it at the same time.'cause it's a paperback and you're just like, what do I even, I don't

Devonnie:

Yeah.

Jordan:

I don't have that moment. I trash my books, so it's fine.

Devonnie:

You know, she bends the

Rachel:

Oh,

Devonnie:

She basically crumples the book up into a little

Rachel:

show them. Love

Jordan:

I do.

Rachel:

look at them and go, this has been loved.

Jordan:

reading. It's a journey of my reading.

Devonnie:

If that's what you wanna call it, if that's what you wanna call it, Rachel,

Jordan:

I do.

Rachel:

I mean, hey, we all have our journeys and yours might just be messier, and that's okay.

Devonnie:

Yeah.

Rachel:

everyone here in this circle.

Devonnie:

Not me. Not me. I judge and I judge.

Jordan:

does,

Rachel:

she said it was judge free. You told me you promised.

Jordan:

I said we judge a little bit and in the

Devonnie:

Jordan said,

Rachel:

Yeah,

Devonnie:

no, I'm kidding.

Rachel:

Jeff. I made no such promises.

Devonnie:

Yeah. No. I'm kidding. Okay, so we know you're working on book two, besides book two in the series, is there anything else you're future planning right now? Is there anything like you're like percolating about like that you might wanna start writing or

Rachel:

I am working on a yes, so I add another book to this one, obviously, and I have a couple contemporaries coming out that they have to finish. But no, I am working on a vampire book right now. I actually just texted my agent this morning. She was like, what do you wanna do? I have all these pitches, right, that they just sit in your computer and I haven't sent them out yet. And I'm like, I like them. And I'm like, attached. But I'm also like, man, I just really wanna write like a really good vampire. Stuff in the modern age, like throw everything on its head. I want it to be different. And she was like, okay, do it. And so like getting the green light is always nice. So it's like mom being like, okay

Devonnie:

yeah. Yay. Yeah.

Rachel:

so I texted her this morning, I'm like, how many pages do you need? Because that's gonna be next. So I am writing that book right now and I'm loving it because it's definitely. Different. I wish I could say, but now I'm like, someone's gonna steal my idea. So I

Devonnie:

Yeah. Don't yeah. Yeah.

Jordan:

That's

Rachel:

It's a really cool concept on vampires, so I'm like, I'm pumped about it. So that's what I'm currently working on. I'm gonna try to take a little bit, I always say this I'm gonna take a break during Christmas, but who am I kidding? I won't because I read and write the same way. Like I don't think of writing his work. It's like fun. You have to, my husband has to literally not tell me the code to the safe. If we ever go on vacation, which we haven't gone on forever, but when we used to go on vacation without kids, he would put, he would hide everything in the safe, including my phone and not tell me. So I wasn't allowed to check social media wasn't allowed to write, I wasn't allowed to do anything. He was like, if you want write, you write with a pen. Well, jokes on me. I can't read my own handwriting. So it never worked out anyways, so

Jordan:

He knew what he.

Rachel:

so really? Yeah. He was like, you're, let me give you a tool you can't even

Devonnie:

Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel:

Yeah. Anyways, maybe I'll busted out again. Yeah it'll, it's good. It's a good thing.

Jordan:

Nice. Well, I'm excited to see what else you come up with, which obviously is a lot. I'm excited to see where you go with that. You said it's a new take on vampires, but

Devonnie:

I love vampire

Jordan:

yeah, if people want to find you, look into your catalog where can they find you?

Rachel:

So Instagram at HBD is my handle. I try to be active on TikTok. Look it, I'm a good lurker. I lurk and I watch other tiktoks and I'm like, oh, they're awesome. But I tend to not. Do my own videos.'cause I feel like I'm really awkward when I try to film things. I'm like, that person that you're like, mom don't like, just don't. And now my oldest is, yeah, my oldest is almost 11. And I'm like, what? And he is shh. But he's been calling me. He is, you know what though? He's been calling me big back for the past month, so whatever. He can sit down like I know.

Devonnie:

They're so mean.

Rachel:

do you know what that means? But you know what, I'll take it. I'd rather have that than that, so it's fine. But like he, yeah, so I'm like not cool anymore, so I can't film the tiktoks. Okay. But I am on Instagram. I have a website, Richmond I can author.com. I'm active a little bit on Facebook. I tend to not be as active and then, but yeah, I answer all my own Facebook messages, my own dms on Instagram. It's all me.'cause I'm chronically online when it comes to that kind of section, so I'm always there to gush about books and share stuff and chat.

Jordan:

Awesome.

Devonnie:

look back.

Jordan:

you so much. Go find her. Go look at the whole huge catalog.

Rachel:

Yes,

Jordan:

for everybody.

Devonnie:

a book.

Rachel:

Yes, there is.

Jordan:

And as always, you can find us in other interviews. We've done deep dives and just so many recs, hundreds of recs. At this point, we're deep into season three at Romance Recs Pod Instagram. Not much on TikTok, sometimes threads, but also go find our substack where you can get exclusive content and bonus episodes and just a lot of fun things over there. So make sure to go follow us, follow Rachel and happy reading everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in.

Devonnie:

And December 2nd. December 2nd.

Rachel:

December

Jordan:

Oh yes. I'm so sorry. Yes. December 2nd. Go read Fallen Gods.

Devonnie:

Gods

Jordan:

Woo. I knew there was something. I knew I was forgetting something. Thank you. That's why there's two of us. Thank you.

Devonnie:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm here. I got your babe. Yeah,

Jordan:

Go by. Read Fallen Gods by Rachel Van Dyken.

Devonnie:

yeah. Bye guys.